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Podcast: School shooting survivor turns tragedy into advocacy

A young woman in a medical office holds a glass model of a spine.
Spine surgeon John Caridi, MD (left) and his patient Kylie Ossege (right), 19, join the 20-Minute Health Talk podcast.

Kylie Ossege, gun violence survivor, joins 20-Minute Health Talk to tell her story of perseverance and advocacy

Every year in America, more than 7,000 young people under the age of 18 are shot. Two years ago, Kylie Ossege, 19, became one of them. A shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan left her with life-threatening bullet wounds. Through several surgeries (including a clavicle repair, blood clot removal and spinal fusion) and years of physical therapy, Ossege's condition continues to improve, and her hope to return to a normal life hasn't wavered. Along the way, the sophomore at Michigan State University has become an advocate for gun safety as a member of her college's chapter of March For Our Lives.

On this episode of 20-Minute Health Talk, Ossege shares her story, reflecting on the November 30, 2021 attack, her fight to regain the ability to walk and her recent surgery to stabilize her spine. The five-hour operation was led by John Caridi, MD, a spine surgeon at Lenox Hill Hospital.

Podcast transcript

Kylie Ossege: 0:00
Usually after lunch before our 5th hour class, me and my friends would kind of just hang out a little bit. And it was just so out of nowhere, I just fell to the ground.

Our principal came on the PA and was like, “We’re on a lockdown, this is not a drill.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, that’s what’s happening? Like, I was just shot?”

Sandra Lindsay (Host): 0:29
Hello and welcome to 20-Minute Health Talk. I’m Sandra Lindsay.

Two years ago, a horrific shooting at Oxford High School in Michigan claimed the lives of four students. Today, one of the survivors, Kylie Ossege, is still recovering from the physical and emotional trauma left by the bullet that shattered her clavicle and nearly left her paralyzed.

Kylie Ossege: 1:02
I still don't have 100% feeling in my legs. They're still pretty numb, but I can walk now. But It took a long time, and it's still healing to this day.

Sandra Lindsay: 1:14
On today’s episode, you’ll hear from Kylie, now 19, and her mother, Marita, as well as the surgeon who recently performed an operation at Lenox Hill Hospital to stabilize her spine and give her a better chance at recovery.

But her journey to this point has been a long, winding road. And it started on Nov. 30, 2021.

Kylie Ossege: 1:45
I believe it was a Tuesday and just carried on my day normally and ate lunch with my friends as I did every day. And it was just so normal. And I remember hearing a balloon popping or so I thought it was at the time. So it was during passing time. So there was a lot of kids in the hallway. And then in a matter of seconds, it was, like, empty. And then three people stayed in the hallway.

Sandra Lindsay: 2:10
Before she knew what was happening around her, the force of the bullet caused Kylie to fall to the ground. A fellow student had opened fire in the school hallway. That became more clear when she saw two classmates also on the floor, severely injured and bleeding. Kylie tried her best to help, despite still being in danger herself.

Kylie Ossege: 2:38
Hannah was right next to me. I kept reaching over and I was, in a way, almost like, petting her head and just kind of trying to comfort her. And I kept telling her, I'm like, just keep breathing, help is going to come. I wonder every day whether Hannah knows that I said those things to her. I wonder whether she did hear those things and they comforted her, and I really hope they did, because I was the last person to be there with her before she passed away. It’s sad to me that I couldn’t do anything to help her.

Sandra Lindsay: 3:27
While she was able to think clearly and reach out with her arms, just moments earlier she realized she couldn’t feel or move her legs.

Kylie Ossege: 3:38
I remember I was like hitting my legs a lot with my hands because I couldn’t feel my legs. I was just in so much pain because I didn't know at the time, but my clavicle was shattered, my spine was messed up. So I was kind of forced to lay there waiting for help to come get me. It felt like the longest 15 minutes of my life.

Sandra Lindsay:4:13
Kylie was initially paralyzed by the bullet, which entered through her collarbone and went out her back. She underwent emergency surgery at a local hospital that same day.

Kylie Ossege: 4:26
Entering the hospital all I'm seeing from my vision is, like, the ceiling with the bright lights and a ton of just random people in blue scrubs and white coats just like on the sides of me. And they're saying my vitals and even though that could be scary to some people, I think it was a huge relief to me just knowing that people were there to help me. That was the first moment I kind of got to relax was when I got to the hospital, just because I knew I was safe.

Sandra Lindsay: 4:55
When Kylie’s mother, Marita, found out about the shooting from a coworker, she rushed to the hospital.

Marita Ossege: 5:02
The ER doctor came and said that Kylie had been shot in the chest. They were just working to get her stable. They had to put a chest tube in her because they were worried about her lungs collapsing. He started crying. He held my hand and he said, I have children too.

A tragic, tragic time for me to walk in and to see her, but at the same time a relief because she was there. She knew me. She was telling me things that had happened. In my mind, I am thinking I think she is going to be okay. I was hoping that she would be okay.

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A swan neck deformity, emergency surgery

Sandra Lindsay: 5:49
At the hospital, the full extent of the damage was realized: the bullet not only shattered her clavicle, but also damaged portions of her spine and some of the joints between the cervical and the thoracic spine as it exited through her back.

John Caridi, MD: 6:06
When it did that, it basically destabilized her neck.

Sandra Lindsay: 6:12
That’s Dr. John Caridi, a spine surgeon at Lenox Hill Hospital who would eventually treat Kylie in 2023. Showing us scans of Kylie’s spine taken right after the injury, he said the November 2021 surgery saved her life.

Dr. Caridi: 6:32
The bullet fractured her clavicle and then went through the set joints and destroyed some of the lamina.

Sandra Lindsay: 6:41
The Lamina is a protective piece of bone in the back part of the spine, where many muscles responsible for posture connect to the spine. Without the lamina, they have nowhere to connect, leading to stability issues.

Dr. Caridi: 6:58
Then she had a blood clot because the bullet caused a lot of bleeding. They removed the bone and evacuated the blood clot. That is why she was able to regain her function walking… Her recovery has been absolutely remarkable.

Sandra Lindsay: 7:17
Removing the clot eased the pressure on the spine. Kylie spent the next two months at that hospital – longer than anyone injured in the shooting. An intense course of physical and occupational therapy helped her walk again, but she was left with chronic, sometimes debilitating back pain. That, Dr. Caridi told us, is because her spine was still unstable.

Dr. Caridi: 7:45
There are a lot of things that go into creating stability in our spine. It is the interaction of the muscles, the joints, the ligaments, tendons, and all of these other things. If you have some kind of disruption, you lose the ability of your spine to keep you in a normal posture. Your spine then becomes subject to gravity pulling you down. Over time, gravity just pulled the weight of her head down. And as it pulled her head down, her spine developed what we call kyphosis.

Sandra Lindsay: 8:23
Kyphosis is an abnormal rounding of the upper back. For Kylie, the bullet’s impact and – to a lesser extent the surgery to remove her lamina – weakened her spine.

Her kyphosis was so severe that she had trouble keeping her head upright.

Dr. Caridi: 8:42
Her muscles, basically, were working overtime to keep her head up and keep her gaze forward.

Sandra Lindsay: 8:49
Sometimes referred to as a Swan neck deformity, due to the exaggerated forward curve, Dr. Caridi said Kylie’s condition would have progressed into what he called a “chin on chest deformity.”

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Dr. Caridi: 9:03
Which is exactly what it sounds like. Literally, her chin would have been resting on her chest. And she would not be able to pick her head up. What that does is it also puts a lot of pressure on the spinal cord because it is essentially draping across the vertebrae. She could have developed worsening weakness in her legs, trouble walking again, and things like that. She would have had not only this postural problem, but also neurologic issues as well.

Sandra Lindsay: 9:30
Having worked so hard and so long to regain the function she had, Kylie could only push forward. So when her surgeons in Michigan told her she would need another surgery to stabilize her spine, she agreed.

Kylie Ossege: 9:46
I knew for this surgery that I wanted to go to the best of the best just to make sure the surgery was done correctly and that it would be hopefully the last surgery I needed for this problem.

Sandra Lindsay: 10:00
A family friend connected Kylie with the team at Lenox Hill Hospital, a premier destination for neurological and spinal care. After reviewing Kylie’s case, the Chair of the Department, David Langer, MD, referred her to Dr. Caridi, who specializes in spine surgery, spinal tumors and spinal deformities.

Kylie Ossege: 10:24
From there, we just scheduled a surgery and it took off from there. I think Dr. Langer and Dr. Caridi really understood the importance of the surgery to me and my family. I think they really helped to make us a priority in a sense, and to make sure that we got this done when we wanted to, the way we wanted to.

Sandra Lindsay: 10:51
Before pursuing this second surgery, Kylie wanted to focus on college, friends and attempt to get back to a semblance of normal life. In 2022, she entered her freshman year at Michigan State University, where she is studying kinesiology, taking inspiration from her countless caretakers throughout this journey.

Sadly, just one semester into her college experience, tragedy struck again with another school shooting – this time at Michigan State. She was not injured in the deadly attack. Since, she has become active, using her voice and sharing her story in hopes of effecting change.

Kylie's advocacy

Kylie Ossege: 11:44
I joined a club which is a chapter of March for Our Lives which is a gun violence prevention organization. We have been doing a lot of work there… It is educational. It is also, in a way, a therapy for a lot of people. Since Michigan State had a shooting this year technically, but last semester, I think it is a good place for people to come together and kind of grieve together in a way. It is a good place for people to support one another. We are all for that stuff. Obviously, our main goal is just to make change and make the world a safer place for a lot of people.

Sandra Lindsay: 12:26
In addition to educating people about gun violence and firearm safety, she shares her story for those who are no longer here and whose voices cannot be heard.

Kylie Ossege: 12:39
Internally, I have to do something because they cannot do anything. I need to do something for them… It’s definitely something I struggle with a little bit everyday. Just knowing that little bit of survivor’s guilt, you know because it’s like why was it them and not me? That’s a big question that I have.

Sandra Lindsay: 13:06
After finishing her second semester, Kylie and her family traveled to New York City for her second surgery, this time with Dr. Caridi.

Dr. Caridi: 13:17
How’s it going?

Kylie Ossege:13:18
Good how are you?

Dr. Caridi: 13:19
How are you feeling?

Kylie Ossege: 13:20
I’m feeling pretty good.

Dr. Caridi: 13:21
Neck feels okay?

Kylie Ossege: 13:22
Yeah, neck feels good.

Dr. Caridi: 13:24
The act of correcting that kyphosis is risky to the spinal cord. If you stretch the spinal cord, you could potentially damage it. Then because she had surgery in the past, that makes it a little bit more challenging.

Spinal fusion surgery

Sandra Lindsay: 13:40
In a five-hour operation on July 17, a team of surgeons led by Dr. Caridi and Daniel Scuibba, MD, senior vice president of neurosurgery at Northwell, fused Kylie’s spine from her C-7 vertebrae, found at the base of the neck, to her T-6 vertebrae, in the upper back. Frank Schwab, MD, who specializes in revision reconstruction procedures, also performed part of the surgery. He is chair of orthopedic surgery at Lenox Hill and system chief of orthopedic spine surgery.

Dr. Caridi: 13:58
We have seven independently moving bones in our neck, 12 in our thoracic spine, and then 5 in the lumbar spine. The idea of spinal fusion is to turn two or more of those bones into one solid piece of bone.

Sandra Lindsay: 14:13
He explained that they cut away sections of the bone, which become stiff when in the deformed posture Kylie’s spine had taken on. That, he said, loosens them up again.

Dr. Caridi: 14:25
We put the screws in. Then those screws are fixed with rods so that they cannot move anymore. Then what we do is use bone graft material. Sometimes we use the patient’s own bone. What that does is that actually forms the bone that heals together so it ends up being a solid piece instead of these independently moving pieces.

Sandra Lindsay: 14:47
The result for Kylie, Dr. Caridi said, is a much straighter spine, which he expects will continue to improve.

Dr. Caridi: 14:55
The portions of her spine up above this will gradually return to their normal spot… The other thing is now the muscles have something to attach to. Before, there was no bone back here. Now they can attach to the rods and hold her head up even better.

Sandra Lindsay: 15:16
Over time, he added, this will also ease Kylie’s chronic pain.

Kylie Ossege: 15:22
I feel good though.

Dr. Caridi: 15:24
Yeah, you’re still doing PT?

Kylie Ossege: 15:25
Yep. Mm-hm.

Dr. Caridi: 15:27
You feel like you’re getting your range of motion in your neck?

Kylie Ossege: 15:27
Yeah, for the most part. This isn’t bad, this isn’t bad... this is good. I can do that one easily.

Dr. Caridi: 15:38
Cool. And your legs are still working fine?

Kylie Ossege: 15:40
Still good. I walked here in heels. (laughs)

Dr. Caridi: 15:45
Impressive. Wow.

Kylie Ossege: 15:46
Now that I am stable, they have a lot of hope like I do. You know? They hope that my pain will start to diminish soon. They hope that I can get back to those things. It is like I have all these hopes, but I have to remember that I am still healing in a sense.

Sandra Lindsay: 16:01
Four months after her successful surgery and nearly two full years after the Oxford High School shooting, Kylie returned to Lenox Hill Hospital with her family to, once again, share her story in the hopes that it can help others.

This part of Kylie’s story, her mother said, feels a little closer to complete.

Marita Ossege: 16:26
We have always had this weight on our shoulders because we knew the surgery was coming. We really did not know what to expect from the surgery. After July 17, it is like a fresh start. She is much better than we had thought. Just getting her back to her life.. her interests and things that she says she wants to do are uplifting. We are happy.

Kylie's goals for the future

Sandra Lindsay: 16:56
Looking ahead, Kylie hopes to get back to her favorite pastimes, which include tennis, basketball and, most of all, horseback riding.

Kylie Ossege: 17:08
It is just a huge part of my life. You know? Whether I am riding or not, it is therapy.

Sandra Lindsay: 17:13
Kylie picked up on her mother’s love for horses and equestrian life at a very young age.

Kylie Ossege: 17:20
I currently own a quarter horse gelding named Blaze. Even though I cannot ride him, it is still fun to go hang out with him and stuff.

Sandra Lindsay: 17:34
Asked if she thinks that she will be able to ride again, Kylie didn’t hesitate.

Kylie Ossege: 17:39
Oh yes. It is not even a question. I am going to make it happen no matter what.

Marita Ossege: 17:45
That is the magical thing about horses. He provides hope. We have hope. She has hope. She has goals. That is what they say. Heaven on earth. Horses are heaven on earth. That is her hope.

Sandra Lindsay: 18:00
Dr. Caridi says Kylie is doing great after surgery and expects her quality of life to continue to improve from here. On a personal note, he said, it’s gratifying to be able to help someone impacted by gun violence.

Dr. Caridi: 18:17
I trained at the University of Maryland. We saw a lot of gunshot wounds there because we were in downtown Baltimore… It is heart-wrenching to see a young person whose life is ended or ruined completely by a gunshot.

Sandra Lindsay: 18:27
Too often, he recalled, there was little they could do to help.

Dr. Caridi: 18:32
To be able to help her, she is such a motivational person. She has achieved so much already, and she is only 19 years old. The fact that she is an advocate and so eloquent and kind of a role model for everybody means a lot to be able to help her get to where she is going. At least try to get some semblance of normalcy for her life.

Sandra Lindsay: 19:06
I want to thank Kylie and her mother, Marita, for sharing their story with us. I couldn’t agree more with what Dr. Caridi said, Kylie is an inspiration and shows such courage and poise in the face of this tragic event, which nearly took her life.

We at Northwell Health support Kylie, not only from a medical perspective, but in her quest to create change and raise public awareness around gun violence prevention and safety.

I was glad to see that when Kylie returned to Lenox Hill Hospital to mark two years since the Oxford High School shooting, that she was joined by Chethan Sathya, MD, director of Northwell’s Center for Gun Violence Prevention. As he said that day, Kylie’s story and the shootings at both Oxford High School and Michigan State highlight a tragic trend. Guns are now the No. 1 killer of children in America. We need to recognize the long-lasting effects gun violence has on its victims, their families, community and society as a whole to better implement change.

To learn more about Northwell’s efforts, as well as the gun violence prevention organization Kylie is a part of, March for Our Lives, follow the links in the show notes.

That does it for this episode of 20-Minute Health Talk. I’m Sandra Lindsay. Until next time, stay safe and be well.

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